09:00:09 We are okay it's on the hour so let's open it up to Filippo and our panel.
09:00:18 The first things is I see a few hands raised and I'm going to give preference to panel members so I see, meow, has a hand up so would you like to go ahead.
09:00:33 Okay.
09:00:35 Thanks. We'll go for the, for the wonderful talk. So, yeah, I think I'm pretty much believe that condensation is happening. But my question is about like what kind of gas, it brings down.
09:00:49 Additionally, because he was saying, you know, most cool cloud and launched by supernova. Don't forget that there are also launching how outflows and has outlawed can go further than those cool gas.
09:01:03 So I would say those clouds, you know, I had a few killer par sec. What kind of hot gas environment it has is pretty much metal enrich the hot gas. So I'd like to see what people are thinking about that.
09:01:17 This is certainly true. And, I mean, I'm sure that the lower Corona is, is the mixture of of feedback generated gas and and acquisition gas, so it's it's quite messy.
09:01:40 And, and the, I mean, also the mentality that are estimated to some, some extent the confirmed is so, so the gas that is coming down is not the pristine, but most likely to conversation but most likely is not the solar mentally city.
09:01:58 Not to mention that condensation if you increase them at initiative works even better, but I mean, mostly what what is important here is to bring down material that is a relatively low methylation.
09:02:11 And, but to.
09:02:14 And I think, I think that is the there is this possibility, but to some extent, let me, let me point that whatever process you have to, to cool the corona these.
09:02:27 If you think that this is a problem the problem remain. Right.
09:02:30 So, so the corona fraction of the corona must be a relatively normal a city and I think it is. And, and, I mean, the further out, you go and the more.
09:02:45 These may be through that. It doesn't really matter how you call it, if you want to, to, to, to feed star formation with the Corona, it has to be at the Northwest solar Italy's.
09:02:56 Right now I'm just saying that the cloud environment is pretty much Michael very enriching Marvin for those cloud that's launch from this I mean they're not going very far under their environment I believe is very much on my man rich.
09:03:10 I mean of course there will be some fresh guys coming but I'm just saying at the you know very this Kayla in her face. You know I just believe you know those hot enriched gases is a minute for the outer yes of course there will be, you know, more low
09:03:25 medalist events.
09:03:28 I mean, perhaps we can get some views of people who observe HPC and their medalist cities, I was just gonna say I know I just recently looked at the distribution of IDC medalists cities aren't Walker has a really nice review and I do think they are predominantly
09:03:45 like metal and rich there's solar inch medalist absolutely yes but that that in any model, even, even in this, I mean, Now I don't I don't want to live a long discussion on the, on the Phantom condensation but even in defender condensation.
09:04:02 Most of the material above the disc comes from the disk. So the fountain cycled by itself.
09:04:09 It's, I don't know, 10 times more rapidly, or, or at least five times more than, then the cooling that you produce so so an intermediate velocity cloud is close to solar.
09:04:23 There is no doubt about that.
09:04:25 But because if there is, then 20% of pristine are pristine, I mean, I'll point one material in in the cloud you, you will never see it, because you don't know precisely what is the initial initial mentality of the seed.
09:04:43 And so it's very difficult to see what I'm trying to say is that we see it dynamically, we see its effect in the dynamics of the fountain, so that is that is powerful, that intimate Alyssa you will never see.
09:04:59 I think one of the things that this is bringing to mind for me and and your picture, your nice cartoon.
09:05:06 And you did mention it briefly you know there is gas and silicon to and carbon three lots of it.
09:05:13 You know well beyond this 10 kilo per sec extra cleaner stuff so we see it out to you know hundred kilobits per second so I wonder if any of the if you Filippo have have thought about how to kind of synthesize the existence of that cool gas at very large
09:05:32 radio. Is it just, you know, precipitation or condensation at larger radio, or is it part of this large scale kind of recycling that I think kind of hydrodynamic simulators might be envisioning.
09:05:59 difficult to to say, I think that the further, the further you go, and the more you start seeing a condition. Really AGM creation by but but relatively close to the disc, you can see many things a little bit can be still.
09:06:12 I mean, wind fountain we should really stop saying what this is spending, and this is when because I mean it's really a matter. There isn't a real distinction so when when when you manage to, to see the media with 20 k PC.
09:06:29 I personally do not think that especially the Milky Way is is launching cold material at 50 k PC. But, I mean, this is my opinion, and and so and so, if you see, there, there, then there is the Magellanic stream that is bought potentially everywhere.
09:06:51 Because, I mean the old part of the stream is very old and the gas may have, May, May been many positions that if there weren't that I think mostly would be external inflow.
09:07:14 But I am happy to hear other opinions. Frank How about you ask your question.
09:07:17 Thanks. So, thank you flip over fantastic overview.
09:07:33 Great question or comment as you say I actually want to take issue with something you raised at the beginning reliably regarding the angular momentum.
09:07:30 You raised the point that if gas would agree today and say the solar radius, it would be weird if it would have the same angular momentum, as this material.
09:07:41 I would actually argue, no that's exactly what I predict because when's the gas cools it loses pressure support, it's going to be regulated by centrifugal equilibrium is going to, you know, there's going to be a perfect rating perfect correlation between
09:07:54 between the radius were to gather creature onto the desk, and it's angular momentum. And that relation is set by centrifugal balance.
09:08:01 So, the moment the gas cools, so so that's why I'm surprised when you say that when you think though what you're saying is if I locally look up above the solar plane.
09:08:14 I see gases rotating less rapidly dead yet, and that's okay. But I don't think that gas will create at the solar radius that gas because it's real, because it has less angular momentum, when it will cool and agreeable agreed further in words, which is
09:08:30 exactly what we saw in your in your hydro dynamic simulations, not the ballistic ones, but the gas comes out, probably not feel so much RAM pressure against a hot gas losing momentum and when it comes back onto the screen is actually migrated in words
09:08:45 you did talks and round brush.
09:08:47 So, so, no I see your point I guess what I was trying to say is that this idea that that the material.
09:08:58 When, when he joins the discuss precisely the angular momentum that issue they have in that location that is common in many chemical evolution models until recent years.
09:09:17 I mean, I'm not completely sure it. I mean it really depends on many things on the history of the anger, I understand I understand your point that on principle, I mean if you, if you want to be in equilibrium us to end up in that position.
09:09:35 I understand that, but i don't know i i i found that, that is, is a strong assumption.
09:09:45 It doesn't have necessarily to be like that I think especially if you have.
09:09:57 If you ever got it. I'm thinking, let's suppose that you have a different type of aggression. That comes for example from filaments cold gas filaments etc.
09:10:01 Okay that meaning to. Yeah, so then the exception is the only exception I can think of is if the Grecian onto the desk is associated with an actual shock onto the desk where it actually has a termination shock, then it comes under the desk that then,
09:10:14 you know, fine, but then then it's not regulated by angular momentum.
09:10:22 But in any other case i'm actually, you've been mentioned the history. That's a nice thing about this film is you don't really care about the history.
09:10:33 All we care about is what was the momentum and how to get to distribute the gas ends up at a radius that's governed by the angle of internet its hands, because in a thin disk, it has to be when, when it has Lewis completed the pressure.
09:10:44 Correct. But the pressure is completely negligible and so radius for the cold gas. Now for extra flavor guys it gets more complicated there's a significant pressure component.
09:10:52 And then, yeah, but I mean, when you, when you get warm gas from this Gleaner component, and I'm not completely sure that the testing, really rotates, as fast as the cold it is, so you will not it will not, it will not.
09:11:19 So when you get the gospel on this the planar layer, may have a deficit of angular momentum with respect to the cold is correct, but when it cools down when it comes back yeah but of course,
09:11:19 it comes up, it comes down warmer. It doesn't have to come down at 10.
09:11:27 At one on the cake.
09:11:29 Correct. Principal, um, you know, maybe we should I, Stephanie who had a really nice up a couple of really nice comments in the slack. And I'm wondering if she wants to, I don't want to put her on the spot.
09:11:43 But if she would want to, it looks like she's turning on her camera so do you want to ask about some of the real migration questions you had in the chat.
09:11:53 Yeah, sure. So thank you for the very nice talk. So I'm more curious about what your comment about like the radio flow first flow into see direction vertical direction.
09:12:04 So, for example, like in, and Chris, I studies like we have like sight lines around galaxies and like New York after major axis we see like whole CGM that it's like co treating for galaxy does, but the philosophy is Lex Lord in a desk, which to me is
09:12:19 suggest some sort of info. So, if there's like a guess it's rotating it says in flowing. So, naturally we think that radio direction like radio flow in those like March parameters in a sec.
09:12:31 But then, like, I'm in your picture, you're talking about like thirst like, no, like, no radio so at the edge of the desk.
09:12:39 Just only in the sea direction, then like next to flow suddenly like stopped at the edge of the desk, and like, if there's some mechanisms that stops the flow, then like how gradual that process would be like if we have site like let's say if there's
09:12:53 ideally there's a site there, we can have site lights around a single galaxy, like every single parameter. What signal that I could see for that, like stopping of radio flow.
09:13:15 Oh yeah, right.
09:13:09 Sorry, I drink water they choose a block.
09:13:13 So I know your work and, I mean, I'm.
09:13:16 What I'm trying to say is not that there is no radial flow in the outer disk.
09:13:26 And what I think that these observations are showing and the fact that the modems work so well is that most of the star formation is fed by relatively vertical acceleration.
09:13:43 I think that if you go down in mass in galaxies, you, you get lots of gas in the outer parts I mean, smaller spirals they have lots of extended, but the star formation there is, is thread is not much.
09:14:03 And so what I was. I mean, I cannot tell you, precisely the numbers but what I was trying to say is that, in the God in the spiral galaxy Were you ever in in the inner parts of these star formation rate of a few solar masses per year to replace the material
09:14:27 from gas at this come at 25 k BC, you need very, very fast flows into this. And these as far as I know I'm not seeing. So, it may contribute a bit, but it's not the dominant contribution that's my impression.
09:14:47 But, um, let's let's open this up. I also want to get here from any panel members preferentially if they have any more thoughts on this.
09:14:57 As far as that goes you know you mentioned these extended desks and the limited star formation out there, and I did this work for my thesis looking for HD regions and these extended gas discs and you do find you know a few, and it's on the order of if
09:15:11 you try to figure out the average star formation rate for stuff outside of the, you know, stellar desk. something like point oh eight, or something like that, solar masses per year.
09:15:23 So, you know, much, much lower.
09:15:25 You know hundred times lower than than in the disk itself. So that is kind of interesting to me that there could be this kind of transition from, you know star formation fed by primarily radio flows and then, you know, stopping some somewhere and I don't
09:15:42 know how you would figure out where but anyway I like I like this idea.
09:15:54 Okay. Oh, I'm Nicola Boucher has had his hand up for a while so let's transition to his question.
09:16:03 Thanks, Ben. Thanks for for this nice presentation, I wanted to follow up on Stephanie's comments so where we see a lot of these cool or warm depending on what your definition of gas in the plane at 40 to 60 girl process.
09:16:20 You, you tend to view that this gas is not a greeting and the equation is only perpendicular to this maybe there's a way to reconcile the two observations, because we don't know at $40 project what thickness, this gas is we know it's probably mostly organized
09:16:38 and
09:16:41 with some level of turbulence, that's difficult to characterize, but the physical thickness is not known so it could be creating and forming this extra bring a guest that we've done.
09:17:01 about that. Yes, certainly.
09:17:04 I mean when you go to for the APC the, I mean if, even if you have one gas.
09:17:11 You're going to have a very large, very thick layer.
09:17:17 And I'm wondering, I mean,
09:17:21 I think, I think it's difficult I mean we had this discussion is difficult to one to with one sideline to understand exactly what what you are seeing there, but I know that I know that there is the statistics that is that the rotation is always lower
09:17:39 than the extrapolation of this so this is telling us something for sure.
09:17:45 I'll do we reconcile it with water, what I'm saying.
09:17:50 I'm not sure but,
09:17:53 I mean, it may depends on the type of galaxy to some extent but i think i think that, In, in the Milky Way We have clear, clear evidence that most of the equation that should not come there.
09:18:09 And in fact, that is the disk is extended but maybe that gas has been there for a long time.
09:18:16 I don't know do you think it's possible that that there is there is a gentle flow orally and in the gas that is coming in the outer part is still is feeding the out of this.
09:18:39 But, not, not much in terms of feeding the star formation.
09:18:34 I don't know what's going on the interface between the artists can the CGM but what's clear also in simulations, it seems like the gas is coming in, in a cooperative fashion.
09:18:46 And with some significant amount of radio motion, what that that's my that's my point but those are nothing.
09:18:57 So what within tackler process, how does it end up there, it's not clear it's not necessarily the case that it has to come from the very thin edge, that is 100% and the thickness, the physical thickness of this Copeland, structure, it could be a few color
09:19:11 process. so could very well end goal of the entire introduced and then migrate radio the final stage.
09:19:23 Okay.
09:19:24 Yeah, go ahead.
09:19:27 No, I mean, we can, I think we can talk about this. Never too long. I mean, I see I had that we haven't heard from for a lot of the meeting and that's do Shawn.
09:19:39 For those nice dog. I basically has a question about where do you get 10 or 10s of kilometres per second for today to flow through the disk.
09:19:54 So we, when you look at the simulations. The as Nikola commented we mostly see complainer condition, and some of it is spread out rather this but it's preferentially ending up in the outskirts.
09:20:11 And usually that's the guys that has very similar angular momentum to the ages very subtle as as Frank commented, and then it proceeds slowly involved with only a few kilometers per second radio flow.
09:20:24 And that's kind of enough to give you a flow through the disc have like one or two solar masses a year. so I just don't know.
09:20:31 If you have 10, kilometers per second radio flow that would be way too much gas.
09:20:36 So I was just wondering where the numbers are coming from. Yeah, no matter that they come from the model in which we we we let all decoration happening at 20 a PC.
09:20:50 And, and then and then the gases to the Milky Way model, I can give you the reference later and the gases to get to the inner parts and form starts there.
09:21:01 And actually you can make more or less of back of the envelope calculation because it is 20 k PC, you have to bring one solar mass video in into the center.
09:21:17 And I mean you you figure out that you need.
09:21:21 These kind of velocities but but if you just depends what do you define as outer parts I think because I mean, if you have if you have distribution.
09:21:33 I'm even in 19 in the chemical revolution models, most of the equation, it doesn't necessarily occur in the very center of the Milky Way especially now because there is a master formation, so that the accretion is in the outer path is also for Nicholas
09:21:49 is this, it's maybe the beak maybe at five k PC and then, Steve, being significant to the edge of the disk. Well, that's what I'm saying is not old at the edge of this, so I don't know if we are talking about the same type of sizes.
09:22:07 Yeah.
09:22:09 Yeah, I think maybe that's kind of the location where we're looking at the radio flows because you already have a lot of material sitting in a desk so you don't need need to move it fast.
09:22:20 To keep having this constant state of conditioning work.
09:22:26 But anyway, so Cameron tab my student and I will soon have a paper on this kind of.
09:22:33 Can I ask you why the gas move sin.
09:22:36 So is it it, because if it has the same angular momentum, does it moving for other reasons, or for our momentum conservation. Yeah so me know so angular momentum it basically settled, very should be settling, and then slowly losing angular momentum we're
09:22:55 transferring to something else and we are trying to figure out exactly how slow authority will have guys that will talk.
09:23:04 Okay.
09:23:06 All right. Thanks.
09:23:12 Okay, I'm Jonathan.
09:23:15 Jonathan started How about you ask your question.
09:23:19 Yeah, thanks for people for agree, Doc. Can you hear me yet.
09:23:24 A yet so just gonna, you mentioned that there's a challenge for the corner to cool and they can't wait to get around that is using these fountain flows but the Kona right the hot guests radiates it cools on its own, so why, Why is your challenge here
09:23:44 right and also these kind of models of Miller and Bergman in the Gentile in Edmond right they actually measure what is the rate in which the corner cools in from that you can deduce the accretion rates and that's kind of without any additional cooling
09:23:59 induced by these fountain flows.
09:24:02 Yes, thanks so, so the the joy can correct me then wait I think it's can be something like point five, or masters video that maybe it's enough.
09:24:15 But the.
09:24:19 The real problem is that it will cool, especially where, where the desert desire.
09:24:24 And so, if, if the density is either in the center, but we're talking about the inner k PC in food there. And then that would not make the disk at all the in the way we think the evolution is proceeding.
09:24:40 So, so the the cooling has to occur in, in, in, in a region, especially in this late times, moving out of the center so that that is, that is why I think only spontaneous schooling is problematic.
09:25:03 And, yeah, and I mean, the fountain is an explanation for what is happening. The combination of heating of the gas in the same thing plus something is can be another perfect explanation, I think, I mean the, the, the, eating in the central part is very
09:25:23 logical way of avoiding this, and, and, yeah, it may happen like.
09:25:32 I mean, in the Milky Way but in many other galaxies may something something similar to, to what happens in the dark galaxies.
09:25:42 So the point is that you, you need to avoid the cooling in the center rather than induce cooling it at the outskirts right that that's what we're saying that the cooling time that I have calculated again, maybe knows more about this is on top of the.
09:25:57 So, essentially if you, if you don't let the the corona cool where the density is I. The, the attrition rate I have calculated is not enough to feed this to bring one solar mass barrier.
09:26:12 If you want to answer our mastery as, as a number.
09:26:15 So, so they, they, they induce schooling is actually useful.
09:26:21 In, as I said in whatever form. But then on top of that, there is this, there is there is this, this reproduction of the dynamics of the, of the later gas that to me that in some sense you can see this as a separate piece of areas because it's not related.
09:26:42 Next, you know that accretionary is about right.
09:26:45 You know something to consider is that the stars in the disk are losing mass at twiddle solar mass a year star formation is about a solar mass a year.
09:26:58 and the creation is maybe half a solo last year.
09:27:02 And if you add that up, it means the disk is growing in the caches disk is growing in mass. So, I suppose, could, but maybe not.
09:27:16 Daniel. You've had your hand up for a while.
09:27:20 Oh yes. Okay.
09:27:22 Thank you.
09:27:24 So, um, I like this this disc. Halo interface equation model, a lot, and especially from reading your earlier paper, my understanding is star formation which wipe out the fellows, not on a podcast in here is most electrical gas, you think about it like
09:28:03 disk. So I think it's a very nice model, or you didn't emphasize your talk but based on your audio work. That's my understanding, Probably you can clarify for that, but Mike, your question is where do you, which wavelength bands, do you think most of
09:28:22 the coding. What radiate, you know, from a couple of million degrees down to the cool gas is a lot of energy needs to be released in this interface. So from a mission point of view.
09:28:38 So much of energy is a soft X ray in the UV band, Nami, can you comment on that as well.
09:28:51 So, in the mission, it's, It's a very interesting question but I guess it depends.
09:28:57 I mean you are going from.
09:29:00 If the temperature is two times 10 to the six, you're going from two times to the sick, at least two times to the floor, because they're the coming back of the fountain, or the big below them to the floor is is neutral.
09:29:17 So, you start from soft x today, I guess, and then, and then you can. So I'm not sure how, how can you see this what we were trying to do in this paper that I was describing, we were trying to see the, the irons in in absorption in that, in that case,
09:29:39 that actually are at in these intermediate 10 temperatures. Right.
09:29:48 And so the, I didn't go into details but we were, we were fitting the absorption for Sydney country cynical, for I think is when carbon to welcome both for that.
09:30:04 10 to the five. And, but in the nation. I am not an expert i don't know i think other people can try to answer this question if, if, if there is something that we can expect in a nation in and in general I mean that when when you see something, obviously,
09:30:31 is, is cooling but in this case.
09:30:37 I don't know if this is a reason I'm asking you is in some galaxies editor we are studying. We do see that kind of diffuse soft X ray radiation. Kinda on the downstream of the spiral arm in the nearby face on galaxy.
09:31:00 So that actually is.
09:31:00 When we will coming up a model is to, to see, touch, explain this kind of downstream country lagging behind is a star forming spiral arms so give you kind of differentiate kind of full distribution off with the admission.
09:31:19 So, when possibility I was thinking is a way that is presented the coding, or, or kind of condensation of the halo gas towards the alpha flows, driven by the star forming regions is around spiral arms.
09:31:43 Now you start to see in downstream of that region what you expect from you kind of trajectory of the season, but I'm not sure. Yep.
09:31:52 Explanation a very interesting idea I haven't, I haven't thought about it so but I mean, it's a very interesting point, I, yeah, maybe maybe I will be curious to see this observation that you are referring to.
09:32:05 Yeah, we're writing up with a paper so, yeah. Okay, good.
09:32:21 Yes dear How would you go. Sure thing. Thanks to both of you. Jess and Ben, and thanks to Filippo for this really awesome talk, I, I was wondering, so in your in your model where you try and constrain the parameters of this, you know, condensation or
09:32:41 vertical flow based on the for example the Melissa gradient in the disk, how do you account for the fact that if you go you know far back in time beyond redshift one perhaps the stream was fed by perhaps the disk was fed by cold streams, or if you want
09:32:54 to apply this to other galaxies which were cold streams and may have played a more dominant role.
09:32:59 I wonder how much of the gradient that we're seeing now that you're using to constrain your model is really the, you know, it can be only explained by this kind of slow accretion onto the disk from the hot Corona which is likely a relatively more, you
09:33:15 know, a recent process versus angular momentum distribution of accreting colds fevers as was discussed earlier with Frank can be completely different and and another galaxies with a different merger history, how general can we expect these types of models
09:33:39 to be for the galaxy population as a whole, what not.
09:33:36 I mean this is really more an opinion I have, but I mean, if I put together.
09:33:47 If I have to put together a picture I think that, I mean, galaxies are different for what we understand they may be transitioning between one and data right and Nick depends how much of the disc has been formed in one way and now much is being formed
09:34:03 formed through the moon separation from the corona and, and maybe that means in the Milky Way most of the stars in my, in my view, the old thing disk could have been formed through a creation from the Quran and so when, when you tend to do this this chemical
09:34:24 evolution models. This seems to fit apart, I mean the chemical evolution models are not saying, where the equation comes from. I'm just saying that the, what they need, fits with the idea that this is coming from the corner.
09:34:43 But, yeah, but. So, I mean if most of the stars are formed through this then, then I think you, you will have difficulties to see what what happened before especially before I should have one or two, then other galaxies, the galaxies are behaving differently
09:35:09 probably
09:35:09 right.
09:35:10 You mentioned at one point in your talk that this and it was just kind of in passing that the the model also seemed to be consistent with predictions of the distribution of the angular momentum of accreting gas in in cosmology, did I see that rock right
09:35:43 So, so, in that, in that paper we, we, we took the expected angular momentum distribution of barbarians. That is the same. more or less with the Doc Martin from simulations, and we built a Corona, that that as that angular momentum distribution and and
09:36:03 and and such that the can feed the, the disk with
09:36:03 to make it grow inside out.
09:36:07 And, and, and, and, and effectively. This allows you to the to infer the rotation velocity of the Corona, because that determines that is determined by the angular momentum distribution, and the rotation velocity that of the corona that we found in the
09:36:26 inner path is again, more or less, 80% of the rotation velocity of the disk, and then and then and then it goes down a lot in the outer part so this is a prediction for the future that I don't know if we will see because they don't be the.
09:36:44 that can measure the velocities accurately but maybe. So, so the prediction is that this goes down in the outer parts of which is low velocities and this has to be otherwise that would be too much anger momentum in the column.
09:37:01 It might be interesting then again this is perhaps less relevant for the Milky Way itself but I think simulations are have been showing in recent years that it high redshift in galaxies that are fed by cold streams that the gas has much higher specific
09:37:13 angular momentum, then you would have natively expected from the dark matter distribution, because the gas streams are so much narrower than the dark matter filaments, and I wonder how that might change some of these predictions I'm very interested in
09:37:26 those results in fact Yes, but going data in this paper we assume that the unseen.
09:37:33 Thanks. Oh, Frank has a separate question.
09:37:39 I'm trying to reconcile something you pointed out is the idea that you know did the exoplanet gas comes from chimneys and then I know. No problem. I believe that.
09:37:49 But then you had to sort of models one where you had a ballistic particle type model, and one we had to have a more hydrodynamic model, and I'm trying to see if I understand this correctly so in the ballistic picture, you sort of have a gas cloud, you
09:38:04 had energy to it to sort of kick it out. It now ends up basically having higher energy sort of moves to a larger radius and then when it comes back to the desk.
09:38:12 It has moved out.
09:38:14 Whereas, in a sort of how does it an epic picture, you know, you blow it out, it now has an ergonomic interaction with the whole Halo gas, the widget experience ram pressure using limit demand moves in words.
09:38:28 Now yes, you seem to be a fan of the ballistic model you seem to argue that the ballistic model was more realistic or wasn't better agreement I'm trying to understand that because no no no I said the opposite.
09:38:37 Okay. Okay so but then then we agree that at least, and, but what I'm then then my question is, isn't then this entire chimney fountain effect, just another way of radio migration it's just another method by which I have a radio migration channel by having
09:38:52 a dork or in this case not a tour, but actually ram pressure against a hub gas that actually caused the net migration inward.
09:39:01 So,
09:39:05 they get machination of gas, we hear. So, so, these is a consequence of the so in this in this in the, the evolution of the fountain that is interacting with the Corona, as you say, we initially go out, go out, but then, but then there is the rug.
09:39:26 And then on top of the drug, which is actually the important phenomena, there is this condensation right.
09:39:32 So, so, so you, we are modeling, like this particle is gaining mass from the corona and and the, but, but it's also exchanging angular momentum and so the angular momentum of the particle effectively that is growing becomes a bit lower because the corona
09:39:51 has lower angular momentum locally. And so, so it comes in.
09:39:56 But they come in together. Right. And, and when they end up into this in this model is very simple we stop, and essentially we are just, we're just looking at the kinematics of this plane of gas, but in reality you have to see what happens in the desk,
09:40:15 and in the disk work what will happen, probably, but I don't know is that that would drive a bit of radio flows. Yes.
09:40:27 Why in the disk. I mean, the radio flow happens in the header that's where it losing momentum and comes back in the desk at a radius word has again mentioned I should know I see, I see I, I, we haven't looked what happens precisely in the day so you,
09:40:43 you, you are saying that probably right that when, when it comes back to the disguise exactly the states that, because it's exactly the right angle and talk some spiral arms and all that other stuff but yeah, it should stay there.
09:40:57 Yeah, I don't know that I know I agree with you is that that's probably what happens. But, so, so the. So the radial flow as being produced anyway because the material has been removed that this radius, but comes comes back in that this inner radius.
09:41:13 So that is the way that alien flow works. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I agree.
09:41:19 Avishai. Let's hear from you.
09:41:23 I'd like to read some Phoenician to this discussion about fountains.
09:41:29 What we see in Hi, Richard.
09:41:31 What we see in Hi, Richard discriminations cosmological that we see a fountain of the opposite shape towards really poison is this woman named me because star formation occurs you know ring.
09:41:47 And out of this galaxy, extremely high anger momentum is being thrown out my feedback.
09:41:54 And then important according Satan comes back as longer momentum, just the opposite.
09:42:01 I wonder what I'm not sure to get rid of interdimensional way because
09:42:08 everyone say to Mr ways, has a quiet the creature history and so on.
09:42:13 It may be relevant to what you discuss today, look more like, like any type of analysis.
09:42:22 But such an open it fountain can be renovated anyway.
09:42:37 What kind of galaxies are you talking about can be.
09:42:36 Yeah.
09:42:57 Big Buck in the middle, said this, the nice start rolling risk that people see attractive to bell ringing typically in the star formation occurs in the outer parts so.
09:43:04 So, the supernova comes from the nicely rotating outer rings.
09:43:08 So a lot of high angle metal goes out a product comes back with a longer amount of just an opposite fountain opposite exactly like I don't understand why, why do you say opposite.
09:43:22 I don't understand why, why do you say opposite. Because you assume that the fountain starts in the middle of the galaxy.
09:43:27 We throw on grumbling from paper can you write the material comes from the desk from there, and the angular momentum is the angular momentum in that location.
09:43:39 And, and the mean in the party depends what we mean but the fountain as as range in the Milky Way goes out to wherever there is information. So it's not really the inner parts and in the inner part is actually this this model is actually not very efficient
09:43:59 because the potential is too is too strong. And so, it's more effective in. In the mid range on the desk.
09:44:10 And, and then, and then I mean it interacts with material that has a lower angular momentum so it sounds similar to what was going on okay fine.
09:44:21 Yeah.
09:44:21 Okay. Um, yeah, these were the angular momentum angle of feedback will be addressed a lot next two weeks I think in the output info week, I see. Sanchez her hand up patiently.
09:44:40 Sanchez her hand up patiently.
09:44:43 Yeah. So I'm actually thinking very naively from an observers perspective, if, if stuff is coming out and falling into the galaxy at a certain radius and assuming that stuff comes out psyche harder and then cools.
09:45:01 So, if I just look at a piece on galaxy in 21 centimeter each one.
09:45:06 Is there any prediction, in terms of what kind of velocity dispersion Should I observe radio early, that can coupled with the fact that some star formation rate can identify one scenario over the other.
09:45:24 So radiantly You mean you rename the disc.
09:45:28 Oh, no, I'm meaning for a face on galaxy. Yes. Oh, my line of sight with inter integrate everything from the halo like the 10 kilo per se, on both sides.
09:45:40 So, so, in, in each one You mean, yes.
09:45:47 So, this, this extra plane of layers.
09:45:51 We have observed them, most of them actually I don't, I don't say it because it's more difficult to to to explain it but most of them we have observed them in galaxies that have not a john because there are many more that are oriented in different ways
09:46:07 along the line of sight, even relatively face on one is 6946, which is a 30 degrees and and you see you see them because they are the calculating velocity with expected this.
09:46:19 There is this, this low rotation, that you can you can really see when you plot the position, velocity plot along the major axis you see gas at lower rotation.
09:46:32 And then, and then the, and then the more you go to the, to the face on and the more you see vertical motions as well.
09:46:41 Sometimes associated with all seem to this. So, the evidence for for the, the extra plane of layers is very strong. Then, then the old process of how they have generated is.
09:46:57 I mean, can be debated but there is clear that there is a paper recently which we have analyzed.
09:47:06 I don't remember something like 18 galaxies in each one is Marasco 2019 if you want to look it up, and, and, and they, and we we built the kinematic model to understand the property of the, of the exoplanet later.
09:47:27 Right. Yeah. So, I have been looking at each one data and we do find these kinematic anomalous gas, like 4am 100 and stuff. But I was wondering if there's like a profile where I could just look at the dispersion of the gas in instead of individually identifying
09:47:45 clouds, which is much tougher.
09:47:49 That just by looking at the radio profile I could say that, okay maybe this is where condensation is happening, you are condensation is difficult, you need the dynamical more than to see condenses condensation is difficult because the difference there
09:48:06 in the kinematics is subtle.
09:48:21 The, the presence of extra plane or gas it's easy because you see along the major axis you see that most of the gas is rotating fast, but there is a there is a pain of slowly rotating gas that, that is that is the above the desk.
09:48:28 Okay, I want to take a lot of your time but probably can I, if I have more question a couple of you with that. Absolutely, yes.
09:48:36 Thank you. Yeah, coach has a question.
09:48:41 Thanks, Ben thanks to label for great talk.
09:48:45 We talked a quite a bit about the English momentum transfer. And I was curious how the energy driving the fountain couples to the extended Corona, a either via heating or even non thermal mechanisms like cosmic rays So, do you have any thoughts on this.
09:49:07 I think that I've much more expert people they are the one thing that I can, I can say is that may be so relevant is that the velocities or or more, mostly sub Sonic.
09:49:21 So the gas is, is going out most of the gas in the fountain is going out to 7080 kilometres per second, which is, which is less than sound speed and the gas.
09:49:35 But I don't know if other people want to say something about then.
09:49:41 Yeah, then, now we're more than, the,
09:49:47 the, the trajectory is.
09:49:51 He's followed as I described before, there is there is gravity and then there is the rug under his conversation.
09:49:59 I know, I know there are though, you know, other other mouse models that do produce fountains that also, you know, have some fraction of, of the hot material that's injected, going, going much further into the Halo.
09:50:13 Yeah, the diggers meow was saying before, so that is.
09:50:20 I mean work, that, that the fountain that we are modeling we want to reproduce the, the warmer, gas, because we because we know the kinematics very well of course the gas will be nice but.
09:50:38 And so, and for. So for the one the gas, as far as I understand from your recent results. Now you can correct me.
09:50:46 The, this, this pseudo ballistic approach.
09:50:50 So ballistic plus some
09:50:54 drag force etc. is very is very similar to the results of the simulations, right from x ray observational point of view.
09:51:06 At The Disco Hello interface.
09:51:10 The map the X ray room nasty from diffuse gas is about less than about 1% of the energy in feedback from supernovae in a desk. So the other party can give you a kind of constrain are the cooling off the gas, it would be the most is through the radiation
09:51:36 in X ray.
09:51:39 So I want to come in on Daniels question.
09:51:44 I think, you know, it's why I say it's, you know, actually mission is not accounting for most of supernova energy, we actually finding simulations and most energy is really that like less than point three kV So, today you know it's extreme a soft X ray
09:51:58 and it's hard officer.
09:52:01 Yeah, so, yeah, in principle, you have a mechanism, if you can kind of convert the energy to other bands, then the just little simple radiative cooling off with a couple of million degree gas, then it's all be okay.
09:52:19 But basically, the answer is that issue when you solve this the fundamental constraint here is from soft X ray which is less than 1% of energy.
09:52:50 Well I would say this Kayla in her face, you know, the hub guys has a distribution of temperature, and about point three kV only accounts for a small fraction of the gas, the majority of the hot gas was the hot gas and they actually are not a, you know,
09:52:51 they are not a meeting about point three PV so the peak is actually the low temperature for just above the 1 million degree can be observed. Although, on the other high end detail.
09:53:04 I think above, as it is now much interest absorbtion absorbing you care can be constrained.
09:53:23 And so yes you have to kind of go temperature drops down to 1 million degree, that's upended either way below. For example, the video temperature of our galaxy at the beast, as this, especially for outflows if you have super bubbles and the temperature
09:53:31 is also expect to be couple of million degree even higher.
09:53:38 Yeah, so if there's a way to mix cool gas, with a hot gas down to a temperature which is below 1 million degree. I think that's a yeah certainly X ray will not have much to say about what would happened.
09:53:54 Okay, well that's an interesting to be the eye, it's very hard to observe, at the end, in the end degree gas near has had his hand up for a while and when I hear from panel members.
09:54:06 Thanks, Ben.
09:54:09 I was wondering, a few people I think in your talk, you said something about 20% of the accretion onto the Milky Way was likely the direct result of condensation.
09:54:21 As a result of kind of, you know, outflows falling back and bringing in more and more guests and like with them, I. First of all, I hope I'm not, I'm not wrong about that number but I was wondering if that number is constrained as a function of massive
09:54:35 like redshift and in particular I'm having my mind what at one point was a strong puzzle, perhaps it's gone away and others can correct me but that analytical models semi analytical models and I believe even some cosmological simulations seem to be under
09:54:50 predicting this specific star formation rates on the main sequence of redshift two galaxies by about a factor of two, if not more. And I wonder if additional condensation.
09:55:02 That might have been missed from those models and perhaps was much more efficient that rich have to might help resolve that discrepancy if it's still there.
09:55:12 That's very interesting. My mother is only at zero.
09:55:19 The so that the model, the dynamical model that reproduces the kinematics in the extra planar layer is fit in the Milky Way now at that I should zero, and that 20% is correct, but what what it means.
09:55:35 It means that the, the, the, the warm gas that you see in the explainer layer. 80% comes from the fountain cycle and 20% comes from the cooling of the corona.
09:55:50 Okay, So, so you're throwing up eight. Right.
09:55:57 And you, and you get back then.
09:55:59 Right, so a result that is sad sorry. Yeah, yeah, I mean a result that I remember from from several years ago from many groups in, including myself together with Avi shy back in 2014 but several others as well doing these kind of like bathtub type models
09:56:17 where you try and tie star formation rate to accretion rate and even assuming 100% recycling.
09:56:24 In the, you know outflows going back into the disk still were under predicting as I mentioned specific star formation rates at rich have to buy by about a factor of two or three, of course, none of those models, to my knowledge included any kind of condensation
09:56:39 or perhaps of positive feedback effect where you bring back in more guests and you throughout. And I just wonder if we think that might be possible to increase, you know, have the condensation be as important, basically a factor to based on the original
09:56:56 outflow at a rich of two main sequence galaxy, do we think that is possible, I think, I think the problems was never that the gas wasn't cooling fast enough.
09:57:06 Almost always had a gas was getting way too fast and and what we were doing was tuning our feedback recipe, to get the Richard zero galaxies correct and by the time we had a feedback model that did that correctly, you screwed up things in redshift too.
09:57:20 so don't think I made a promise in handy related to an inability of the gas of cool. It was going too fast we were just, you know, not correcting more than the feedback is my interpretation.
09:57:29 I think you're perfectly right because I always get got this comment, we have enough cool gas your, your phenomenal doesn't think that's
09:57:43 Just I see your hand up. Go ahead. So, um, I just wanted to suggest I remember early I'm gonna go back now to early on in your presentation and and and save Drummond from your, your cross hairs.
09:58:02 I think that, in fact, your real beef is with ping who somehow escaped your cross hairs, but paying is the one who put groggy versus McCourt as superheroes, and not only that Filippo, I think, Drummond an apology because he did site or milk does paper
09:58:21 in his talk. You know, I, sorry, I joined this conference suddenly you know because.
09:58:30 And, and a nice all the drama talk I didn't I didn't see.
09:58:35 Ok.
09:58:39 Ok, I let, I publicly. I mean, that was really a joke anyway I like, I like, I like to make the superheroes so I took it as an excuse.
09:58:50 I appreciate that.
09:58:54 Yeah, I'm look I'm waiting for a response from paying, and I do see he's on, but no pain and Drummond turned on so I see him.
09:59:14 I just saw your slides there are better there is.
09:59:21 Yeah, I just wanted to show Batman vs Superman.
09:59:28 Okay, well that that takes us to the hour that was a that was an intense discussion I'm trying to synthesize, some of the main points from it.
09:59:40 And I hope that we can discuss this more tomorrow and especially in the context of some of the hot gas we've talked about this, this week as well that's specific to the Milky Way.
09:59:54 So on that note, I think will disperse.
09:59:58 And I want to remind people of. I want to thank the panel of near Jess, Frank.